The Blitzkrieg on Poland

[Mitch]

I built all the 400 series and flown them with rubber. I have even flown 4 of them in FAC contests. Now I will start on the 1000 series. My first model will be the Stuka. I will need to make more Me 109's as my current models have been retired from FAC contests.


The skeleton is a Dumas PZL P11a. I built the skeleton in a week and will take more of what I have learned to apply to the Stuka. I hope to have the Stuka fly for at least 20 seconds!

Here are some examples of some wings:

The Stuka wing was built long ago and was planned for an RC model... it weighs 45g (Silkspan paper, doped, and landing gear wires)
The PZL wing is laser cut and weighs 12g
The P-47 wing is laser cut and weighs 24g

I will build the new Stuka wing for rubber power, and am hoping to have the skeleton weigh 15g.

Notice in this picture all the lightening holes in the ribs of the PZL:


So I will be going aboard my ship this week, and when I return in 2 weeks I hope to have the skeleton of the Stuka finished.
I plan to:
1. Use half the wing ribs
2. Drill lightening holes
3. Build the fuselage lighter
4. Use lightweight wheels
5. Change the nose block
6. Use some contest balsa

I will give you all an update in two weeks, and will be interested in any input or feedback.

Mitch, FAC Eagle Squadron

[dirk gently]

Cool.
How much dihedral do you have on the outer wing panels of the P.11?

[Mitch]

The P11 kit was built with very few changes to plans.

The plans show 1-1/4". I have about 2-1/4" I can make sure I get what I want when I set up the model and cut and install the wing struts.

Other changes are:
Moved rear peg forward 1 inch. I like to have my rear peg in the middle of a bay, I find it easier to install the rubber.
Light weight Du-Bro wheels.
Reinforced and adjustable nose block.
I plan to make color copies of the decals and apply the paper copies on the model.
The model came with only Green paper. I plan to use Dark Olive Drab on overall, and Sky Blue on bottom of wing.

I built the P11a model. If I build this again it will be the P11c model.

Just another note... Guillow 400 series models WILL fly when built to plans, I will make changes as mine are going into FAC competition. I am not sure how well the 1000 series will fly, so I will be making it as light as possible. I plan to make the bomb drop in flight with this device...

I will be building several new models for this next FAC flying season... stay tuned for updates...

Mitch, Squadron 34

[David Lewis]

The ultimate in lightweight wheels are those made out of contest balsa. You can make them any size or shape. I posted instructions at my Aeronca Champ #301 build thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2697
One of the disadvantages of the wheels supplied in kits is, they are often not to scale.

[Phugoid]

Yes you laser cut them out, the detail you can achieve is fantastic.

I am currently designing a series of scale models for a manufacturer here in the UK. I have not gone with plastic wheels at all, preferring to make them from balsa- thus individual to each model. For example take the Spitfire and ME109. For the same span the ME109 wheels are huge when compare to the spit.

This is my 18" ME109 for an example....

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa ... ic=16622.0

If you want wheels sans tyres then you construct it like a real wheel (it having "rims") and make the tyre from rubber sponge cord, which then sits nicely in the groove.

Andrew

[Phugoid]

Sorry i forgot to point out the obvious. here it is for the children (or the childish)

You send your files to a nice man with some pounds sterling (or dollars), the nice man then sends you some parts laser cut, via the Royal Mail or (USPS)....

Ask a stupid question and........

[Mitch]

As far as wheels go... I do not use them, unless fixed. The pictures I see of the PZL have wheel covers which I plan to make out of paper. Moreover I plan to use the correct colors as I found on the internet:

The kit only came with a St Patrick's Day Green and the Guillow wheels as in the 400 series kits, I have about a gross of those in a shoe box...

The best thing I came up with for plastic wheel is making the hub for my 3 and 4 blade props:




I know guys make wheels out of balsa... heck half the guys in FAC carve there own props... I'm still concentrating on getting these things to fly for over 20 seconds... and enjoying every minute!

By the way... I love those laser cut wheels!

Mitch

PS: Checking my tool box, getting ready to leave, and just order another Spitfire and Hurricane (Dumas) for the Battle of Britain from my local hobby shop!

[dirk gently]

The accuracy of the drawing you found online is dubious. I think you'd be better off copying the colors from the real thing:




more is found on google:
https://www.google.pl/search?q=PZL+P.11 ... 80&bih=952

[Mitch]

Thank you for those pictures. I saw many, but not those. Your pictures are of the "C" model. The kit is the "C" model with a choice to make the "A". The difference is the shape of the tail, and the "A" model has a short headrest. The "C" model they bring the top of the line of the headrest to the tail. Without the wheel covers, it looks to me that the Guillow wheels provided (same as 400 series) would be fine. The Du Bro wheel I an using are half that weight. I am trying to show people how to make slight changes and get these planes to fly well. The Dumas model is designed only for rubber FF.

As for the Guillow models, they are "Multi Purpose" and I believe they are built like a "Brick Out House" (Overly strong, and thus heavy) Fine for display or gas/electric power. To get the 1000 series to fly on rubber I believe it will take a lot of trimming weight. I plan to use only part of what it in the kit. (The spare parts can go into my RC model I started many years ago, and never finished)

I have built the Me 109 about 6 times now, and this new model will have even more improvements I have learned, but will be easy for anyone to do. My target weight for the 109 is now 70 grams!

The best time I have on record is 38 seconds, my next goal is break the 1 minute mark. Maybe someday I will need to make DT's (De-Thermilizer's) to force my model back to Earth... but for now I want them to FLY!

Mitch

[dirk gently]

Hello,

you are correct, this is the 'c' model, and the only remaining example in the world, which I had the luck to see in person on a couple of occasions. The painting scheme however is not different from the 'a' version. One significant difference, apart from the ones you mentioned, is that in version 'a' the axis of the engine matches the axis of the fuselage, while in version 'c' the engine was dropped down significantly to improve pilot's view. I have no idea if Dumas accounted for this in their model though.

I can also send you a photocopy of a book that deals with how polish pre-war military aircraft were painted. There is a painting scheme for P.11a as well.

If you are going for color accuracy, one thing to remember is that the upper surfaces are not really olive drab, but rather 'polish khaki', which is more reddish, and less green. It's obtained by adding a bit of red into olive drab paint. If you decide to airbrush it, several manufacturers of scale model paint offer polish khaki paint.

One way or the other, I will surely watch this thread with close interest!

Best regards

[Mitch]

Thank you so much for your info, Dumas does not give much info. I am not going to paint and will use domestic colored tissue so my color selection will be limited. I plan for the PZL to be Olive Green over Sky Blue, The Stuka Evergreen over Sky Blue and the 109 to be Dark Grey over Sky Blue. I have done 2 and 3 color camos with paper, but plan to keep things simple as I want to keep the weight down and make repairs for "battle damage" easy.

Here is the tail for the "a" version:


Here is the head rest on the "a" version:


The Engine is separate and I will place as you say rather than the plans show for my "a" version:


I was not planning on spending too much time discussing the Dumas kit, but only showed it to show what needs to be done with the Guillow kits to improve there flight time with rubber power.

The skeleton was built in a week. I plan to build the Stuka and Me 109 aboard my ship. I will be on board for the next month, then home for a month and plan to skin all the planes at that time and do some test flights. 2014 is 75 years since the attack on Poland. Next year at the 2015 FAC Nationals is a Battle of Britain mass launch. I plan to build another Me 109, a Spitfire, and Hurricane and enter my best duration flyer in the mass launch. I will enter other competitive models for judging and timed flight events.

Thank you for your feedback on the PZL.

Mitch, Squadron 34 of the FAC

PS It looks the "c" version has extra mg's in the wing. I plan to have only 2 mounted in the fuselage... I think I will need to make the "c" version also...

[David Lewis]

David Duckett wrote: "Any shape? Do you per chance know how to make the scale wheels, not tires, used on modern aircraft from contest balsa with all the very distinctive patterns of spokes and holes they have?"

Regrettably, only turned shapes are possible with my method of scratchbuilding wheels. (A turned part is any object that could hypothetically be made on a lathe.)

[davidchoate]

Thats a beautiful plane. both the model, and real thing.

[dirk gently]

> It looks the "c" version has extra mg's in the wing
Actually, most examples of the 'c' version only had two 7.92mm guns in the fuselage. Just a handful of airplanes of the 'c' version was equipped with two more guns in the wings, and these were reportedly often removed in combat units to improve climb rate and manouverability.

Is there any particular fighter squadron, the markings of you intend to use?

[Mitch]

I like the 111th Squadron:



I will make color copies of decals and use bond paper... I will also be adding new squadron marks on the Stuka and Me 109.

Mitch