The problem of how to introduce kids (I have a 9 year old boy and a 14 year old boy) to model building has been on my mind for several months. I'd love to share it with them or really any youngster that was interested.
It seems to me that the hobby has never been more attractive or accessible. There are glues and paints available now that do not stink as much as those available when I was a kid. The PC based printers, copiers and scanners in the my home are also a great help to me. The internet is a fantasitic source of ideas, plans and support (forums like guillow's, for example were not a round when I was a kid). And all the software that is available related to drawing and engineering models is something new and benefitial too.
Still, kids don't seem to relate to it easily. Also, razor blades and modeling knives are still a concern. Also, the hours of time it takes to make the most basic model is a barrier to kids that have grown up on the internet, video games and 100 channels of TV.
I've thought the No-Cal movement is a great way to lower the entry bar for kids. But it still takes a few hours to complete something like that. And a sharp knife is still required.
Along those lines, I wonder if kids might like something between the No-Cal models and the products Guillow calls Toy Airplanes (Sky Launcher, Strato Streak, Jetfire ...).
I'm thinking that by bonding a lightweight paper or plastic film to thin sheet balsa, a product could be built that the kids could draw or color on with magic markers or water colors. I'd imagine the assembly of these models would be very similar to the 'Toy Airplanes'. This would give more of the flavor of building a model (assembly and decoration) but not require so much time as a true No-Cal.
If anyone has other ideas on how to get kids in to modeling, I'd love to hear them.
Getting kids started in building flying models
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by supercruiser » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:12 am
I have given this subject some thought myself. You are right about situation. The hobby is much more accessible. And there is much distraction from video and other electronic mind numbing endeavors.
How to get them interested? That's a tough question.
We a going against the grain of the current culture of instant gratification.
I think it would take a one on one effort with a young individual. I have heard of some success with after-school programs.
One thing that has changed, I think, is the general idea that you must work for something to be rewarding. 40 years ago this was a normal concept.
How does a person convey the idea of satisfaction versus fun? Building a balsa model (or many other types of hobbies) brings the joy of satisfaction. Flying an ARF (RTF) brings fun.
Again, I think now it must be a one on one effort. The days of mass appeal are gone. My 2 cents.
How to get them interested? That's a tough question.
We a going against the grain of the current culture of instant gratification.
I think it would take a one on one effort with a young individual. I have heard of some success with after-school programs.
One thing that has changed, I think, is the general idea that you must work for something to be rewarding. 40 years ago this was a normal concept.
How does a person convey the idea of satisfaction versus fun? Building a balsa model (or many other types of hobbies) brings the joy of satisfaction. Flying an ARF (RTF) brings fun.
Again, I think now it must be a one on one effort. The days of mass appeal are gone. My 2 cents.
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by SteveM » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:08 pm
I think people tend to go a little overboard on condemning today's youths as being mindless slaves to the video game and TV and instant gratification. When you are busy pointing the finger at the kids consider who is the role model for that child. This is a bit of a slippery slope as one could argue that video games and TV are harmful and parents are to blame for not limiting their children's exposure to these media. But one could also argue that watching a movie, TV show, or playing an adventure type video game is no different from a "book worm" reading science fiction books in their bedroom.
There is also the issue that people need to understand that times have changed since they were kids. At one time kick the can was the entertainment of choice. Once flight was discovered it was extremely fascinating and kids built models and dreamed of the day they could fly. Now days technology has developed to the point where you can fly a model with RC but at the same time flying in a plane is about as common place as taking a bus. Getting a man to the moon stirred up a lot of interest that has also gone the way of the dodo bird. So you'll have to excuse today's youth when models of a flying bus does not excite them.
Another issue is that kids will want to do what their friends are doing. When kids were playing kick the can showing your friend how to start a fire with a flint was not likely to impress or interest them. Likewise, if a kid's friends are all talking about their latest achievements on their Xbox/Playstation/Wii/etc then your kid probably won't want to tell them how last night his dad made him glue some sticks together.
I wish there was an easy answer, but I think you have to realize that what excited you as a kid won't work for today's kids. But the principles are the same, it has to be competitive with other entertainment. I suspect that the popularity of ARFs is due to kids being familiar with modern manufacturing and not understanding why you would spend weeks and months building a plane when the obviously superior way would be to buy one already built. I think the best approach might be to get them interested in flying an ARF or a kit that you already built for them. Then when they have learned to fly and if they are still interested you can try to bring up the challenge of building your own plane.
Some people just like to fly and don't like to build so you'll never get every kid to like model building for flight, others will never be interested in building or flying models. I think the challenge is not how to make a specific child want to build flying models, but rather how to appeal to those that would enjoy it if given the proper introduction.
There is also the issue that people need to understand that times have changed since they were kids. At one time kick the can was the entertainment of choice. Once flight was discovered it was extremely fascinating and kids built models and dreamed of the day they could fly. Now days technology has developed to the point where you can fly a model with RC but at the same time flying in a plane is about as common place as taking a bus. Getting a man to the moon stirred up a lot of interest that has also gone the way of the dodo bird. So you'll have to excuse today's youth when models of a flying bus does not excite them.
Another issue is that kids will want to do what their friends are doing. When kids were playing kick the can showing your friend how to start a fire with a flint was not likely to impress or interest them. Likewise, if a kid's friends are all talking about their latest achievements on their Xbox/Playstation/Wii/etc then your kid probably won't want to tell them how last night his dad made him glue some sticks together.
I wish there was an easy answer, but I think you have to realize that what excited you as a kid won't work for today's kids. But the principles are the same, it has to be competitive with other entertainment. I suspect that the popularity of ARFs is due to kids being familiar with modern manufacturing and not understanding why you would spend weeks and months building a plane when the obviously superior way would be to buy one already built. I think the best approach might be to get them interested in flying an ARF or a kit that you already built for them. Then when they have learned to fly and if they are still interested you can try to bring up the challenge of building your own plane.
Some people just like to fly and don't like to build so you'll never get every kid to like model building for flight, others will never be interested in building or flying models. I think the challenge is not how to make a specific child want to build flying models, but rather how to appeal to those that would enjoy it if given the proper introduction.
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by supercruiser » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:30 pm
Steve,
You have brought up some very good points. I agree with most of it and I would like to interject some of my thoughts.
As far as them being mindless video slaves because of parents/adults, you are quite right. This behavior is fed by technology and money. There is big money in video/electronics. A lot of people get sucked into this habit, mentality, or such. Which is easier to get a child to do: eat string beans or a candy bar? Which is better for them?
I agree. It is sort of like fishing. You expose as many as possible to the concept and a few might show an interest. I for one would not be interested in learning to play a musical instrument, even if shown how. However, I do like listening to certain kinds of music. I think the key is to be interested in the person more than the hobby. Again, I think the one on one approach is better for the parent/mentor and the kid. Keeps them together and both from the TV, etc. Any decent hobby could accomplish this. I'll stick with this venue since that is what I know.
As far as using an ARF, catapult glider, or Skystreek or such as an introduction is certainly a valid approach. Having a 12 year old sit down and build a 500 series Hellcat, right from the start, is likely not the best method.
In my opinion the current culture is detrimental to today's youth. I consider this some kind of plague or disease when young boys as a majority are not interested in building plastic or wood models, working on an old car, or such endeavors that require thinking, learning a skill, and working with their hands. We understand the situation, but enough talk and conjecture. Has any tried to work with the youth with this hobby? I for one have. They showed a temporary interest but, went on to other things. I'll keep trying.
You have brought up some very good points. I agree with most of it and I would like to interject some of my thoughts.
As far as them being mindless video slaves because of parents/adults, you are quite right. This behavior is fed by technology and money. There is big money in video/electronics. A lot of people get sucked into this habit, mentality, or such. Which is easier to get a child to do: eat string beans or a candy bar? Which is better for them?
Some people just like to fly and don't like to build so you'll never get every kid to like model building for flight, others will never be interested in building or flying models. I think the challenge is not how to make a specific child want to build flying models, but rather how to appeal to those that would enjoy it if given the proper introduction.
I agree. It is sort of like fishing. You expose as many as possible to the concept and a few might show an interest. I for one would not be interested in learning to play a musical instrument, even if shown how. However, I do like listening to certain kinds of music. I think the key is to be interested in the person more than the hobby. Again, I think the one on one approach is better for the parent/mentor and the kid. Keeps them together and both from the TV, etc. Any decent hobby could accomplish this. I'll stick with this venue since that is what I know.
As far as using an ARF, catapult glider, or Skystreek or such as an introduction is certainly a valid approach. Having a 12 year old sit down and build a 500 series Hellcat, right from the start, is likely not the best method.
In my opinion the current culture is detrimental to today's youth. I consider this some kind of plague or disease when young boys as a majority are not interested in building plastic or wood models, working on an old car, or such endeavors that require thinking, learning a skill, and working with their hands. We understand the situation, but enough talk and conjecture. Has any tried to work with the youth with this hobby? I for one have. They showed a temporary interest but, went on to other things. I'll keep trying.
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Re: Getting kids started in building flying models
by supercruiser » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:42 pm
svaughn wrote:The problem of how to introduce kids (I have a 9 year old boy and a 14 year old boy) to model building has been on my mind for several months. I'd love to share it with them or really any youngster that was interested.
models would be very similar to the 'Toy Airplanes'. This would give more of the flavor of building a model (assembly and decoration) but not require so much time as a true No-Cal.
If anyone has other ideas on how to get kids in to modeling, I'd love to hear them.
I think building, maybe, the Fairchild 24 (this is a Guillow forum) yourself and letting your kids fly it, might be a good start. If there is a free-flight model contest nearby, take them to it.
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by thymekiller » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:59 pm
As any thinking adult, I agree with some of whats been posted and disagree with some.
I would like to add a couple things.
The AMA Dart. { I think thats the name } It glues directly to the plan and that , after being cut out , IS the covering. I believe it can be a glider or rubber powered. With pratice, its a 20 minute build and they can fly it as soon as the glue dries. I can provide a link if wanted.
Paper planes are quick and easy and most need scizzors at the most. Again , I can provide links if wanted. Somewhere , I have a pattern that you cut out of an egg carton. Place a penny in the front and it flies. Also an ama thing.
Kids today ARE different than 45 years ago. Almost everything is different. There are some basics that remain the same. Spend time with your kids. Do something , anything , just do something with them. If you dont , someone else will....
Trains, cars, buses/trucks, airplanes, submarines, go bowling whatever. Start with a ready made if you want. [Lots of cheap r/c on e-bay.] See if their interested or not. Explain to them why you do what you do. The joy of modeling "whatever" , is not just the finished product. Its the ability to get there.
If they like bowling , for example. Take them. Help them learn about different ball weights. Different shoes. Fresh waxed lanes. ect.
20 years from now , they may not remember alot about bowling, but they will remember going to the lanes with dad. And the basketball game, and fishing, and the airshow........
Not all kids are the same. Mostly because parents are different. This might draw fire but here goes... If you place a knife [previously forbidden ] in the hands of your boys, it will be a big day in their lives. Make it a ceremonail big deal. Rite of passage thing. With supervision, and strict rules it openes the door to that father/son bond that they seldom develope before 8/9 years old. The building time can be a "guys only" kinda thing that helps form a man to young man relationship. All of this , of course depends on each indvidul person and family rules. Sooner or later, the boys will cut themselves. Brace yourself. At my age I still sometimes have boo-boos and I know how to deal with it. Teach them the same. Simple planes dont use the types of tools that allow the removal of a hand. Safety and first aid basics need to be taught at some point. { not sure about a 9 year old. On average, kinda young for a sharp knife. } Better if in the mostly safe haven of your controlled environment than someplace that you cant supervise.
Ok, I'll stop now. I hope I did not offend anyone with my hillbilly point of view point. I come in peace.
thymekiller
I would like to add a couple things.
The AMA Dart. { I think thats the name } It glues directly to the plan and that , after being cut out , IS the covering. I believe it can be a glider or rubber powered. With pratice, its a 20 minute build and they can fly it as soon as the glue dries. I can provide a link if wanted.
Paper planes are quick and easy and most need scizzors at the most. Again , I can provide links if wanted. Somewhere , I have a pattern that you cut out of an egg carton. Place a penny in the front and it flies. Also an ama thing.
Kids today ARE different than 45 years ago. Almost everything is different. There are some basics that remain the same. Spend time with your kids. Do something , anything , just do something with them. If you dont , someone else will....
Trains, cars, buses/trucks, airplanes, submarines, go bowling whatever. Start with a ready made if you want. [Lots of cheap r/c on e-bay.] See if their interested or not. Explain to them why you do what you do. The joy of modeling "whatever" , is not just the finished product. Its the ability to get there.
If they like bowling , for example. Take them. Help them learn about different ball weights. Different shoes. Fresh waxed lanes. ect.
20 years from now , they may not remember alot about bowling, but they will remember going to the lanes with dad. And the basketball game, and fishing, and the airshow........
Not all kids are the same. Mostly because parents are different. This might draw fire but here goes... If you place a knife [previously forbidden ] in the hands of your boys, it will be a big day in their lives. Make it a ceremonail big deal. Rite of passage thing. With supervision, and strict rules it openes the door to that father/son bond that they seldom develope before 8/9 years old. The building time can be a "guys only" kinda thing that helps form a man to young man relationship. All of this , of course depends on each indvidul person and family rules. Sooner or later, the boys will cut themselves. Brace yourself. At my age I still sometimes have boo-boos and I know how to deal with it. Teach them the same. Simple planes dont use the types of tools that allow the removal of a hand. Safety and first aid basics need to be taught at some point. { not sure about a 9 year old. On average, kinda young for a sharp knife. } Better if in the mostly safe haven of your controlled environment than someplace that you cant supervise.
Ok, I'll stop now. I hope I did not offend anyone with my hillbilly point of view point. I come in peace.
thymekiller
"...the road goes on forever, and the party never ends..."
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by svaughn » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:00 am
I beleive SteveM is right about times changes:
As I understand (and I wish I knew more), someone invented the balsawood and tissue model airplane kit in the 1920s. At that time balsawood was something new. South America (where the balsawood comes from) was a glamorous and mysterious place. And airplanes were new and exciting too.
At that time, and even into WWII, many real airplanes were built out of wood and fabric. The balsa and tissue models not only looked like the real thing, but they were internally very similar. Aluminum airplanes started to erode this similarity, and then jet aircraft made the rubber band motors less relevant.
It really is amazing that the balsa and tissue media has made it this far! There is a guy in England, Mike Stuart, that has made some amazing flying jet models with balsa and tissue. If you haven’t seen his site, it is at http://www.ffscale.co.uk. Absolutely stunning models.
Before TV, people listened to radio. But radio is different from TV in that it is not all consuming. People tend to listen to radio while they are doing something else (driving, working around the house, even at-work). Think of all the hour people had on their hands back in those days.
Still another difference was the availability of space. You need an acre or two to fly most free flight models. It is difficult to find that kind of space. I generally make models in the 16” to 20” wingspan size. I’ve thought about trying to make things in the 4” to 5” size to fly in the backyard. Haven’t explored that yet though.
Maybe the core of the change in times is that kids today are used to being in constant contact with each other through cell phones, instant messaging and texting. When I built models as a kid, much of the time was spent alone (I was also called a bookworm). Making the activity a group activity might be the key.
There is also the issue that people need to understand that times have changed since they were kids. At one time kick the can was the entertainment of choice. Once flight was discovered it was extremely fascinating and kids built models and dreamed of the day they could fly. Now days technology has developed to the point where you can fly a model with RC but at the same time flying in a plane is about as common place as taking a bus. Getting a man to the moon stirred up a lot of interest that has also gone the way of the dodo bird. So you'll have to excuse today's youth when models of a flying bus does not excite them.
As I understand (and I wish I knew more), someone invented the balsawood and tissue model airplane kit in the 1920s. At that time balsawood was something new. South America (where the balsawood comes from) was a glamorous and mysterious place. And airplanes were new and exciting too.
At that time, and even into WWII, many real airplanes were built out of wood and fabric. The balsa and tissue models not only looked like the real thing, but they were internally very similar. Aluminum airplanes started to erode this similarity, and then jet aircraft made the rubber band motors less relevant.
It really is amazing that the balsa and tissue media has made it this far! There is a guy in England, Mike Stuart, that has made some amazing flying jet models with balsa and tissue. If you haven’t seen his site, it is at http://www.ffscale.co.uk. Absolutely stunning models.
Before TV, people listened to radio. But radio is different from TV in that it is not all consuming. People tend to listen to radio while they are doing something else (driving, working around the house, even at-work). Think of all the hour people had on their hands back in those days.
Still another difference was the availability of space. You need an acre or two to fly most free flight models. It is difficult to find that kind of space. I generally make models in the 16” to 20” wingspan size. I’ve thought about trying to make things in the 4” to 5” size to fly in the backyard. Haven’t explored that yet though.
Maybe the core of the change in times is that kids today are used to being in constant contact with each other through cell phones, instant messaging and texting. When I built models as a kid, much of the time was spent alone (I was also called a bookworm). Making the activity a group activity might be the key.
Steve
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by thymekiller » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:05 pm
There are several other threads about this same thing. They all have one thing in comman. Dont try a big group. 4-5 at the most per adult. I can post a few links on this if wanted.
thymekiller
thymekiller
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by thymekiller » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:33 pm
Check ebay. There is a lot of 3 denny darts. Ends soon. Its a plane that glues to the plan.
thymekiller
thymekiller
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by dbcisco » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:51 pm
I was thinking about this as a teacher. Maybe get kids playing an RC flight sim like FMS (free). Then if their interest is peaked, get them into the real thing.
I use computer games as examples for my database design course. Making a connection from what they know to what they don't is a great methodology.
I use computer games as examples for my database design course. Making a connection from what they know to what they don't is a great methodology.
A bumblebee isn't supposed to fly but does.
My plane is supposed to fly but doesn't.
Balances out doesn't it : )
My plane is supposed to fly but doesn't.
Balances out doesn't it : )
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by Greyhound » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:15 am
I'm only 12 and I'm into modelbuilding! About a year ago, I tried to build the Hellcat but it was a little to hard. I made the Skyraider for a school project and right now I am building the P-51 Mustang. Are there any other 12 year olds here?
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by Socketassault » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:56 am
Greyhound, I'm 15. Although I was like, 13 or something when I did the Wright Flyer.
On topic. Svaugn, the 14 Y/o shouldn't have a problem with an exacto blade...I was building model rockets at ten, and using an exacto long before then...
Once yout stab your finger a couple times with the blade, you learn..lol.
On topic. Svaugn, the 14 Y/o shouldn't have a problem with an exacto blade...I was building model rockets at ten, and using an exacto long before then...
Once yout stab your finger a couple times with the blade, you learn..lol.
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by thymekiller » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:17 pm
Young people arnt as helpless as some people think. I'v seen some amazing stuff from some young people. Ya gotta learn sometime, and when you do, it feels GREAT !!!
Airplanes arent as easy as they look. Thats what makes this hobby special. The greatest thing to be learned here is the power to create. The power to overcome problems. That skill will carry over to all aspects of your life. A person might be suprized at what ELSE you have to learn, in order to build an airplane. Math, sience, history, mechanics, construction skills, computer skills, conversion skills, and, most importantly, the power to not give up when it gets tough.
The power to keep your eyes on the prize. Thats the tickett.
thymekiller
Airplanes arent as easy as they look. Thats what makes this hobby special. The greatest thing to be learned here is the power to create. The power to overcome problems. That skill will carry over to all aspects of your life. A person might be suprized at what ELSE you have to learn, in order to build an airplane. Math, sience, history, mechanics, construction skills, computer skills, conversion skills, and, most importantly, the power to not give up when it gets tough.
The power to keep your eyes on the prize. Thats the tickett.
thymekiller
"...the road goes on forever, and the party never ends..."
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- Location: Springfield, MO.
by BugEater » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:22 am
Being relatively young (20, 21 in March). I started building when i was 17 in high school. I had built plastics before that, but my mother (yea, my mom) bought me a guillow's TBM Avenger when i was 16 for my birthday, i had been previously interested in WW2 aircraft (Memphis Belle is a great movie). it sat for a while and then the summer between my junior and senior year of high school i had nothing to do, so i opened her up and built her, didn't sand it, cover it or anything, just slapped her together. I found it an oddly, highly rewarding personal experience. I've been trying to build them better and better ever since. I've gone on to build some of the 500 series: P-40 (as a flyer, flew ok), F6F hellcat (Static, blue tissue, looks pretty good), Bf-109 (researched a plane to replicate, looks way better). I'm now in the middle of building the 900 series Typhoon and the 500 series spitfire. all while studying for my classes (Junior Biology major, university of nebraska-lincoln) and keeping up my fraternity obligations. I have a 1000 series F4U-4 Corsair in the waiting and am looking for a B-17 to build for my father as a memorial to his father who passed last year.
As for starting kids, personally it started with an interest in WW2 and the Greatest Generation. My only advice is to get them interested in the bigger picture, the history and what these models represent. I now enjoy trying to figure everything i can about the plane i want to build, major battles it fought in and famous pilots. doing research to find the right paint schemes and correct markings.
I enjoy watching tv and play loads of video games, but it's nice to sit, listening to music or the tv in the background and get my mind of all the stress of college. building guillow's is a great change of pace in the super hectic college lifestyle.
-IH,
Jon
As for starting kids, personally it started with an interest in WW2 and the Greatest Generation. My only advice is to get them interested in the bigger picture, the history and what these models represent. I now enjoy trying to figure everything i can about the plane i want to build, major battles it fought in and famous pilots. doing research to find the right paint schemes and correct markings.
I enjoy watching tv and play loads of video games, but it's nice to sit, listening to music or the tv in the background and get my mind of all the stress of college. building guillow's is a great change of pace in the super hectic college lifestyle.
-IH,
Jon
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