Swinging with the Comet 'nickle and dimers' and other stuff

[davidchoate]

thanks for showing us the plans

[simpleflyer]

I'm glad that you liked them, David. I'll try to get some links for Guillows nickel and dime models that are at the Hip Pocket plans page.

Al

[simpleflyer]

We've found eight Guillows stick and tissue models of 12 inch wing span that would probably qualify for ''nickel or dimers'. They are in the downloadable plan section at the Hip Pocket Aeronautics Forum. To download plans from HPA, one needs to be a member of their forum. The plans are:

F-1 Waco Biplane



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3482

F-3 Fokker D7



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3462

F-5 Albatross D3



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3461

F-7 Nieuport 28



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3463


F-10 Berliner Joyce



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3478

F-21 stearman Fighter



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3481

(Gu model # unknown) Morane Saulnier



Click on:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/details.php?image_id=3480

Enjoy,

Al

[simpleflyer]

These Guillows models are from about 1933 to 1934. This was almost 20 years before I started building model. A few messages back we mentioned a friend who built a Comet P-40 and he and I flew it together. In his family garage was a small collection of old kit plans. Among them were a few of these Guillows plans. He let me borrow them and I vaguely remember building a Beech 17 biplane(??) from this series. Most of the models seemed to be biplanes and I am not a very good biplane builder, but on the BE 17, both of the wings attach to the wing so we were able to make a crude attempt of building it, also we replaced the formed bamboo tail surfaces and wing tips with sheet balsa. We did not attempt to fly it and kept it as a display model for a while.

The availability of the Comet dimers and their simplicity made my entry into model building easier and more rewarding.

Al

[simpleflyer]

A few years ago we were a seller on Ebay selling old plastic kits and buying old model magazines and old Guillows models. We saw a couple of small Guillows kits advertised of 12 inch wingspan of stick and tissue construction. They were produced around 1947 and share a similar structure of the Comet A series. The kits on Ebay were the Ercoupe and Piper Cub.




We've explored Outerzone and Hippocket plan sites and have not found any of these Guillows models there. If anyone has more information on this Guillows series I would be interested in learning about them and possibly obtaining plans of them. Thanks.

We have found some information about 12 inch wingspan models produced by Megow, High Flier, and Continental models. This will be posted as time permits.

Al

[simpleflyer]

A couple of days ago, the weather cleared and we decided to do a bit of flying in spite of the breezy conditions. We've been gathering information about 'nickle and dimers' so we decided to pick a couple from our fleet of 'swingers' and attempt to fly them. A while back we built a Ryan ST from the Comet W series. The structure was modified to imitate the style of Herb Weiss'es 'Minute Models'. The fuselage sides and tail surfaces are made of 1/32 sheet and the wing and fuse top and bottom are stick and tissue.



The underside of the wing is left uncovered. In this small size(10 in WS), the lack of cover doesn't seem to affect flight ability.



The nickle Ryan compared with the dime Stinson.



A couple pix of the flights, the wind at times put the little Stinson into some awkward attitudes.



Some normal flights were accomplished.





Al

[simpleflyer]

Yesterday the wind slowed a bit and we got some good flights with the Ryan.







There was a post in the previous page of thread with a copy of an old ad showing a line of 'nickle' models - the Comet W-series. 12 models were in the series: ROG, Aeroneer, Dart, Security Sport, Cessna, Ryan SC, Miller Racer, Fairchild, Bellanca, Ryan ST, Monocoupe, Howard. All were about ten inches in wing span.

Al

[simpleflyer]

Several days ago while flying the Ryan, we were attempting touch and go landings on the patio slab. On one attempt the outboard wing of the Ryan struck a brick with this result.



The repair is relatively simple. Removal of the damaged tissue and splicing in a piece of leading edge.



After the repair dried, it was time to open up the cover and paint shop. While doing so, some other repairs were done.



Tissue attached and a coat of glue/water mixture applied. Test flight tomorrow, perhaps.



Al

[zoomie]

Al, you have some nice looking nickle & dimers! Sorry to hear about the brick incident but glad you were able to fix the model.

Two questions for you:

Are your models in the pics covered with Japanese Esaki, or Domestic tissue?

Have you ever tried fitting a scale propeller to one of your scale swing models? Seems that the prop blades could be made in the feathered position to minimize resistance. A spinning prop might add a lot of realism to the flight experience .


zoomie

[yellowlynn]

Simpleflyer, I have a question. That real old dime I got on ebay, I got new wood and finished it up. It's not worth a flip so I have nothing to lose by hanging it on a line. Now, just exactly what do you use o swing them? I thought of a fishing rod with reel to take line in/out. I will have scads of trouble. I have very little feeling in my feet, so turning in circles will put me on the ground. Would it be feasible to swing them around in back of you and hope for the best that they are still in the air when they come back into sight? I hate to say it, but maybe 83 is a bit too old for this. I guess I just hate to give it up.

I also found out that bad eyesight and very shaky hand pose extremely difficult handicaps to overcome on tiny models.

Lynn

[simpleflyer]

Thank you, zoomie, for your comment about the Ryan. It still is able to fly after the repair, but I need to build some more 'nickle ' companions for it.



Bill Parker gave me a piece of Esaki tissue a while back. I used it on one of the swingers in the Cloudbuster series. It was easy to work with and the end results were good. Most of my models are covered with kit tissue or domestic tissue that we salvage from gift wrap or packing. The domestic is very affordable(free) and comes in a variety of colors.

Early on I used propellers on our scale models when we tried to fly them with rubber power. They were not too successful. When we turned to 'swing control", there was no need for props, anymore. The majority of our models are gliders so they don't use props either. The modified Comet Phantom Flash that we built was closer to a hand launch glider and is one of our best flying small models.



Al

[simpleflyer]

Hi, Lynn, do not be disappointed with the lack of success with your 'nickle' model. I am not aware of many who have a great deal of success with them as rubber powered models. They need to be built very light and are somewhat finicky to fly. They are only slightly larger than Pistachio scale models and these are way out of my league. We built a few of the ten centers as a kid mostly to learn how to build models and because they were affordable. And they did kinda look like an airplane and gave one a sense of accomplishment after building one.

When we returned to modeling, we tried a few as a sentimental kind of thing. However our ability to fly them did not improve, so when we started to swing control models we tried swinging them and they do fly after a fashion.

For my swing control models, I use a 12 foot telescoping fish pole. Shakespeare until recently marketed an excellent pole at Wal-Mart. When they closing them out, we were able to buy them for five dollars apiece. It is nice to have a reel on the swing pole. Some folk go this route, but since most of my flying is in a confined area we find no need for a reel. The Shakespeare pole has nice fittings built into the handle end of the pole for winding the line. For beginners and less expense, one can use a shorter pole. I have used a four foot length of 3/8 dowel fitted to the end of a short length of broom handle into which a hole has been drilled to accept the dowel, and it works fine.

For connecting the model to the line and pole, we use small line connector swivels used by fishermen. Since our models have been small to medium wingspan to date, we use nylon line like we used for 1/2A controline models as a kid. If we ever make it to larger models we have some .008 braided steel wire.

For beginning swing flying, I would recommend using a line the length of the swing pole that one is using. For my test flying and all-weather flying, I use a 11 foot long telescoping pole(it used to be 12 foot, but we broke it with a too aggressive swing and fixed the pole by sliding the broken pieces together and it became a 11 foot pole) to a 10 foot line. Now we have a combined pole and line length of 21 feet. Plenty of circle radius for good flying conditions. If an inflight emergency condition happens, simply raise the pole straight up above ones head at full arms length. This way the out of control model will not hit the ground or your head.

At 74 years of age, I am not very good at going around in circles and I take great precaution of avoiding falls. So virtually all of my flying is done standing in one place without turning around. The only drawback is that the line tends to wrap around the tip of pole. In calm conditions this method works quite well. Some things to consider when flying this way. Be aware or the people and stuff behind you. Make sure your complete flying circle is clear and stays that way during your flight and that you stay in the center of the circle during the flight. Make sure model is trimmed for straight and level gliding flight. If the model is stable and trimmed for straight and level and air is calm, the model will fly in back of me and return back in sight in front of me almost at the same level when it left my sight. I often check my models off the swing line, by giving them a test toss to see if they still fly straight and level. As a rule of thumb we balance our models with the CG about 1/3 of the wing chord or less from the leading edge. We attach the swing line to the wingtip even with the CG, more or less. It varies a bit from model to model.

Hope this helps, if any questions, feel free to ask.

Al

[yellowlynn]

Simpleflyer, Al, You filled me in perfectly on what I wanted to know. I couldn't make a feather fly in an updraft, but I'm going to start in on this swinging. I have a couple models, I think one is the Javelin. I think I'll try it, sans rubber and prop.

One other question: How do you get it airborne? Can you have it on the ground? Possibly angled back from the pole? Do you build them a tad heavier than normal to give it a mite more centrifugal pull? The reason I ask that is, 60+ years ago I tried a U control. (first timer) An underpowered trainer, with too long control lines, let the plane turn into me. After spitting out dust, that plane never flew again. That is why centrifugal force enters my mind.

I thank you for answering my basic questions, and before I'm done, I'll probably have a Jillion more.

Thanks again
Lynn

[simpleflyer]

Lynn, most of our backyard area that we fly over is grass so we hand launch our models. With the short line and combination we just raise the tip of the pole until the model lifts off the ground and then start swinging. If you have a flat smooth area where a rolling take off is possible, one can swing the model off of the ground and start flying.

As a youngster, a flying buddy had Comet P-40 that he and I flew successfully off the street near his house. He had installed a tricycle landing gear on it. The wheels were large enough and turned freely on their axles so it was easy to swing the models off the hard surface into the air. On his model, there was no offset required to get it off and flying.

So far in our swing control flying, we have not found the need for any trim offset to keep the model tight on the line. It seems that the nature of the swinging motion keeps the line tight and the model flying as it should. It appears to me that there is difference between a CL model where the motive power is at the nose of the model, as opposed to swing control where the power pulls the model into flight from the wing tip. It seems that the model is free to adjust its flight path at this point to go with the air flow and and fly. Now wind(air flow fluctuations is another matter). Flying in windy and gusty conditions require constant attention to keeping the swing pole in a position relative to the model so line tension is maintained at all times if control is expected to be maintained.

This is why I trim my models for straight and level flight. In windy conditions, it is common to get into a slack line condition where the model will fly a portion of its flight path on its own until the line line tension returns and one can resume normal swing control.

You mention that you have a Javelin that you might use for swing control. That is a good choice and should fly well for you. We built one a few years ago for swing flight and it has given us many hours of satisfying swing swing control flight. One can read about it here:

http://balsamodels.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2315

Enjoy,

Al

[yellowlynn]

Al, I started on the Javelin last nite. I think I'll set it up for power first, mainly because it is such a good flier, that for the first time in my life I can get one to fly. Then when that doesn't work, I can always try swinging. That isn't just negative thinking, that's trying to be realistic. As a kid in the 30s and early 40s, CG, trim, weight, and all that wasn't considered, or even known. Gadzooks how things have changed.

You have given me the info, and more, the incentive, for which I am very grateful. I'll try to keep you filled in on my progress.

Lynn